Friday, October 23, 2009

Did Augustine get it right? Discuss the report

The Human Space Flight Plans Committee report is out and being reviewed by the White House, Congress and stakeholders everywhere.

But let's talk about it now. Did Augustine and his colleagues get it right? Did they get it partly right, but miss some key points? What do you think should happen? Weigh in by clicking comment below.

Here's some material summarizing yesterday's whirlwind release.

You can read our story from this morning's newspaper here.

Here's the link to the full report (PDF).

15 comments:

Anonymous said...

Eliminating Ares-1 is a great idea. There are so many other competing choices - Falcon 9, Delta IV, Atlas V etc. Nasa should concentrate on building the heavy rocket.

Anonymous said...

Eliminating Ares I is a ridiculous idea. The decision was made years ago to go forward with Ares and so much progress has been made. Why would we, as a country, want to go back to scratch. What a waste of time, money and resources. No wonder our economy has tanked if this is how we do business as Americans.

Anonymous said...

I'm a mechanical engineer who worked at NASA during RTF after Columbia on the tracking camera upgrade project. One of the considerations throughout all RTF projects was the relative level of safety to the mission that each of our decisions would contribute. Safety is an engineering judgment and a moving target, it's calculated and designed for, not assumed.

I think their assumption that all of the vehicles would be equally safe is a really dangerous proposition. One of the primary reason we're spending billions of dollars to replace the Shuttle is that its systemic risk of failure is far higher than spec and than is acceptable. To then go halfway through development of the follow-up program and say "oh, well, any replacement system will be of equivalent safety" ignores the conclusions of the Columbia Accident Investigation Board's report and even the conclusions about NASA management of systemic risk found after the Challenger accident.

Anonymous said...

The so-called "Flexible Path" is a lesser version of the Vision for Space Exploration.

VSE calls for a landing on the moon, followed by a landing on Mars.

FP goes for an orbit around the moon, then a fly-by of Mars. No landing is permitted under the FP scheme.

The VSE heavy-lift launch vehicle is more capable (lifts more weight) than the FP version. That makes it easier for an eventual landing on Mars, which as Norm points out is the ultimate goal.

FP is a look-but-don't-touch program. No sample return or in-situ resource utilization for either the moon or Mars.

Graham said...

I'm in agreement with the later two posters. Finish what you have started years ago. And it's very much safer to continue with ares. Don't go in reverse .

Anonymous said...

You confuse $afety with dollars, this is about getting rid of all the FAT that has hung on for too long.For profit contractors will run it like a business, not a hobby. If you screw up, make bad decisions, etc. you will become ACCOUNTABLE, something very foreign to NASA folks vocabulary.

Anonymous said...

They should Close Down the whole operation....

Anonymous said...

I can't help but thinking that those on the panel had an agenda, possibly due to some sense of hidden loyalty to the companies involved in the other alternatives or the possibility of their disagreements with the NASA vision of the new launch systems. Whatever it was the Ares system will be proven just like Apollo was during the testing phases of development. Ares 1 and Ares 5 will eventually make the country proud as Apollo did in the 60's and 70's

Anonymous said...

Oh OH... you mean they really are going to shut the endless spigot of US tax dollars down to a trickle? Maybe the US Postal service and NASA will form a joint venture with the Chinese, the Asian Space Stamp Company.....

Anonymous said...

>Eliminating Ares-1 is a great idea. There are so many other competing choices - Falcon 9, Delta IV, Atlas V etc.

Brilliant idea...except NONE of them are man rated.

P. Darvio said...

The only useful statement-finding out of the Report is that NASA needs more money - so take $3 billion a year out of the defence budget - they wouldn't even notice.

Anonymous said...

In all likelihood, Augustine should have happened after Columbia burned up. Nothing wrong with Obama giving NASA a reality check. Infact, it's been long overdue. My only criticism is that the panel really should have given a stronger indication of a destination. And that should be Mars!

Anonymous said...

There is no way another rocket can beat Ares I to space, and be man-rated with the same level of safety that Ares I offers. Stay the course, I say.

But I would abandon all support for the ISS now, and move on to something more exciting and rewarding. Most of the American public doesn't even know the ISS exists, and it has accomplished nothing scientifically.

And frankly, you can't leave manned spaceflight in the hands of private industry because it offers no tangible payback. The money has to come from tax dollars, because it involves intangible payback - things like leadership and scientific knowledge. Who's going pay for a Mars landing? The answer is nobody, so it has to be publicly funded. Unlike European colonization efforts, there is no gold to be mined in space exploration, so it must be performed for other incentives, which do not motivate private companies.

Clark C. McClelland said...

Augustine, the so-called US Senate, Congress and White House,and MOST of those POLITICIANS in Washington DC are committing high treason against OUR once great nation on a daily basis. Why???
Because the Shadow Government that totally controls this once great USA are in FAVOR of the next nation that WILL control earth. CHINA is that nation. China OWNS US(A) NOW!!
The NWO, World Bank, CFR which IS the combined Shadow Government is dictating that destruction of OUR United States of America.
The now brain dead birth right, tax paying once patriotic citizens HERE are the cause of our destruction.
WE (NOT I) COMMITTED SUICIDE!!!
Clark C. McClelland, former ScO, Space Shuttle Fleet, KSC, Florida 1958 to 1992.

Anonymous said...

Hi-
Read the actual report. Worked for government for some time, so I have some idea how its done. The report pushed privatizing the most expensive part of human exploration, getting into low-earth orbit. This is not surprising, given the makeup of the Committee (former head of Lockheed-Martin, CEOs of various firms, etc.) There are a couple of things that are glossed over
1) The report pussyfoots about why the Shuttle is being decommissioned. This is understandable, but unfortunate. The Shuttle is inherently flawed, and considering the option of using it until 2015 or 2020 is not consistent with the stated policy of not considering very risky options.
2) The focus on getting into low-earth orbit is bizarre since we currently have a safe, reliable, fairly cheap way to do it, as the head of Cirque de Soleil and other passengers have found. The Russian rockets work, and are automated, so no "truck driver" needs to risk his life at all. This is totally missing from the report, as are considerations of the Ariadne program. Again, this is understandable. If a cheap foreign progrom exists, some company can outsource to it and make a bundle, which is what this part of the report is about. NASA is doing same thing, but only the taxpayers would benefit if that foolishness continues.
3) The Flexible Program is simply a Lite version of another program (as noted by another commentor), but it seems to be favored by the Report since it is achievable. This program also has important Defense implications as pointed out by the former Navy Secretary Chairman. If NASA doesn't do it, DoD probably will. This will teach man to live, work and probably fight in space. When the American frontier was being settled, the establishment of a forward base was a fairly late deverlopment. Most "bases" were established where and when needed, and then were abandoned.
I urge future responders to read the report. I think they will be surprised.